Canon 5D MKII or Canon 1DS MKII??

[nigelivy]

Hello everyone

I'm looking to upgrade my DSLR. I've been looking at a new 5D MKII, and am quite keen on it. However, I have seen that I will pick up a second hand 1DS MKII for around the same price as a new 5D MKII.
Can anyone explain the major differences between the two cameras and which they'd recommend? Money is not the issue on this (although I don't need to blow £3000 on the 1DS MKIV atm), I'm more interested in which is the better camera for the money. Know what I mean?

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Nigel

[ALwin]

1) Are you planning to make videos? If so get the 5DmkII or something else besides the 1DS II

2) How good a quality would you be talking about for the used 1DS II? Re-furbished or just a second-hand that the previous owner has traded in or sold to a store.
-shutter count
-wear and tear

3) Compare their specifications which you have probably done. Some highlights below
5DII over 1DSII
-better lcd screen
-MP count
-newer metering
-higher ISO
-UDMA CF support

1DS over 5DII
-45 focus points
- +/-3 EV vs +/-2EV
-built in vertical grip
-more white balance settings (this is subjective to the user)

4) Money should always be an issue, with the economy today people are struggling and we should always be smart about it.

5) As for the 1D MKIV, personally even though I know it's a great camera, I feel that Canon should have made it a FF instead of this silly APS-H (1.3x) crop sensor.

[nigelivy]

Thanks for the input ALwin!

I won't be using the camera for video - purely for photographing.
My apologies if what I said about the money was misunderstood. Due to the economic times, I am not looking to spend £3000 on a 1DS MKIV. I would rather spend a few hundred ££ more on the 5D over the 1DS MKII, if it is the better camera.

I would be taking about a second hand refurbished 1DS MKII. Would I be better off with the 5D?

[ALwin]

Thanks for the input ALwin!

I won't be using the camera for video - purely for photographing.
My apologies if what I said about the money was misunderstood. Due to the economic times, I am not looking to spend £3000 on a 1DS MKIV. I would rather spend a few hundred ££ more on the 5D over the 1DS MKII, if it is the better camera.

I would be taking about a second hand refurbished 1DS MKII. Would I be better off with the 5D?

I apologize if I was rude about the money comment, was just making a light remark because 2 years ago when I seriously got into photography I sort of wasted some money on being not smart. Remembering how foolish I was and how much I have learned since then.

As for which camera to buy, I can only give you advice, it will be you who spends your money on one or the other. Personally I feel that the 5D may in fact be the better camera due to newer technology in the components but then again no matter how good the camera, everything depends on the person who uses it.

[nigelivy]

I apologize if I was rude about the money comment, was just making a light remark because 2 years ago when I seriously got into photography I sort of wasted some money on being not smart. Remembering how foolish I was and how much I have learned since then.

As for which camera to buy, I can only give you advice, it will be you who spends your money on one or the other. Personally I feel that the 5D may in fact be the better camera due to newer technology in the components but then again no matter how good the camera, everything depends on the person who uses it.

Thanks ALwin. I thought your comment about the money was in line and appropriate.

I appreciate your comments, and I think I'm leaning more towards the 5D.

[seanlee]

5) As for the 1D MKIV, personally even though I know it's a great camera, I feel that Canon should have made it a FF instead of this silly APS-H (1.3x) crop sensor.

I always wondered about that. When I found out about the 1D's 1.3x crop I was surprised since it was their 'pro' camera. Is this the universal pro standard, and the full frame (5D) is merely an enthusiast standard?

[ALwin]

I have a feeling a 1DS Mark IV may be full frame. Looking at their cameras, their 1D series is 1.3 while the 1DS is FF

Canon EOS 5D Mark II 1.0x (36.0 x 24.0mm)
Canon EOS 5D 1.0x (35.8 x 23.9mm)

Canon EOS 1D Mark IV 1.3x (27.9 x 18.6mm)
Canon EOS 1D Mark III 1.3x (28.1 x 18.7mm)
Canon EOS 1D Mark II N 1.3x (28.7 x 19.1mm)
Canon EOS 1D Mark II 1.3x (28.7 x 19.1mm)

Canon EOS 1DS Mark III 1.0x (36.0 x 24.0mm)
Canon EOS 1DS Mark II 1.0x (36.0 x 24.0mm)

But a 1.3 sensor doesn't make sense when you buy good glass, at least with APS-C they have the EF-S (DX in Nikon) series of lenses designed for the smaller sensor size while 1.3 APS-H cameras only have Full Frame lenses, so it makes more sense to get a Full Frame body anyway.

[seanlee]

ah ok I didn't know there was a difference between the 1D and the 1DS.

What's your opinion - is the 'pro' 1D worth the extra cash over the 'enthusiast' 5D full frame?

(Sorry for partially hijacking the thread)

[ALwin]

ah ok I didn't know there was a difference between the 1D and the 1DS.

What's your opinion - is the 'pro' 1D worth the extra cash over the 'enthusiast' 5D full frame?

(Sorry for partially hijacking the thread)

My personal opinion, if photography is all you're going to be doing the 5DmkII is better than the 1DmkIV, or you can wait next year when Canon may release a 1DSmkIV (without certainty). And I doubt people would call the 5D an 'enthusiast' body. The money saved on getting a 5D instead of the 1D could be used towards quality glass.

The 1DmkIV has an edge over the 5D in terms of HD video though.

[BrianMDoucette]

It does really depend on what you expect to use the camera for. I personally have a 1D Mark II and I would highly recommend any of the 1D series of cameras. Fast focus is the clincher for me and also being able to shoot at 8 frames per second for sports. The 1.3 FOVC gives my lenses a little more 'reach'. Here is a list of pluses and minuses for each camera(IMO).

Pros & Cons 1Ds Mk II
+ Full Frame sensor at 16 Mp
+ Better AF (faster)
+ Better weather sealing
+ Big body w/ portrait handle
- Digic 2 / decent high-iso performance
- Only 4fps
- HEAVY

Pros & Cons 1D Mk II - (Shares all of the pluses of the 1DS)
+ 1.3 FoVc at 8 Mp (extend those telephotos a bit)
+ 8.5 Fps in bursts to 40 frames

Pros & Cons 5D MK II
+ Full Frame at 21Mp
+ 1080p Full HD Video (not for me)
+ Digic 4 / superb high-iso performance
- Not weather sealed
- Small body, extra cost for battery / portrait grip

[seanlee]

So in the overall scheme of things, the crop of the sensor means very little I take it? Particularly since 1.3x is a relatively small crop compared with the 1.6x in the 7D.

[ALwin]

-just noticed something new, it seems that the 1DS series also have about double the MP count of their 1D counterparts. So that's most likely the reason why the 1D series have faster fps counts. Similar to the Nikon D3 or D3s vs the D3x. The image processor takes more time with more MP.

But if you're into photography and don't care about getting very high fps, there is the 1DS Mark III option.

It also depends on what kind of photography you do. In the helpdesk forum I asked about if it's worth it to upgrade from a DX (APS-C) body to a FX Full frame body and some of the replies I received was:

1) Landscape, portrait > Full Frame recommended
2) Sports > Stick to DX (APS-C) unless you can afford the really expensive 300mm or longer lenses.
- In a way I agree with both statements but at the same time I have a slight issue with the No. 2.
Sure, a cropped sensor may seem to give you reach but a 200mm lens on a 1.5 or 1.6 sensor is still a 200mm focal length lens. It is only because of the sensor size being smaller that it gives you a field of view equivalent to ~300mm on a FX sensor (~260mm with 1.3 sensor). If you take a photo with a 300mm lens on a Full frame sensor and 200mm lens on a 1.5/1.6 sensor, even though the field of view will be ~exactly the same, the 300mm lens will provide better resolution as it allows you to 'get closer' (assuming that both the 300mm and 200mm are equally great glasses). So in the end everything depends on what you want to do and your budget.

On a side note: weather sealing on the 5DmkII, it's enough for normal use and better than any other camera below it which is basically every Canon body apart from the 1D series. Would anyone, even if they had a very expensive pro camera like the Canon 1D or Nikon D3 series with their superb weather sealing go take photos in a downpour? They'd use some plastic bags or rain-covers. And don't forget that 'weather sealing' and 'waterproof' are 2 entirely different things.