The Weekend Project - 5th August

[ravens-eye]

Great choice of subject & excecution Simon. Works really well.

Congratulations. I must get back into entering these projects.

Gareth

[ALwin]

Congratulations Simon, from the looks of the photos entered for this weekend, it was obvious who had 100% chance of winning and who had absolutely ZERO.

After all, half the entries looked like they were taken by tourists with their hobby cams, bad exposure and all. As I've said to some friends on the forum, if people are going to enter competitions they should do their best and make sure their entry has the best chance of winning. These monthly and weekly challenges are not blind competitions where you can't see what others have entered. By looking what your competition has entered you can easily try to plan your entry to have the best chance of success.

Quoting someone on the forum
"I do agree that if you are going to enter, then it is worth entering properly, to give yourself any chance of winning. It is frustrating that some people don't read others comments, or listen to what they are told about how to use the forum properly. However, this is something that seems to come with every forum i visit. We can just keep trying to guide these people and hope they one day grasp the concept. "

[Rosie]

Well done Simon.
And thanks to everyone who entered - looking forward to seeing all the entries next week!

[Troy]

Congratulations Simon, from the looks of the photos entered for this weekend, it was obvious who had 100% chance of winning and who had absolutely ZERO.

After all, half the entries looked like they were taken by tourists with their hobby cams, bad exposure and all. As I've said to some friends on the forum, if people are going to enter competitions they should do their best and make sure their entry has the best chance of winning. These monthly and weekly challenges are not blind competitions where you can't see what others have entered. By looking what your competition has entered you can easily try to plan your entry to have the best chance of success.

ALwin, really?

It is one thing to be a senior member of the forum, and a more advanced photographer, but it is another to tread on other's photo efforts. I'm sure you weren't born at the level you are now, so surely a little bit of encouragement and friendly advice would be more constructive than this. And who knows, maybe with helpful things like that, future competitions will be full of pro-looking photos, but for now, the more the merrier.

[ALwin]

Of course I want more people to participate, but I also want them to put in their best effort. And the words I wrote are 100% truth. Sometimes the truth is harsh but necessary to be told. I don't hide behind diplomacy nor political correctness.

I think we are already giving a lot of encouragement to fellow members to improve their skills in other sections of the forum, too bad that some members only stick to a particular part of the forum and avoid anything else where a lot of other tips, tricks, issues, etc. are being discussed. If they really want to improve, they should be able to accept both praise and criticism (just like me) on their work and say "next time I'll show you what I can do".

As I've said before, whenever I post my work on this forum or anywhere else, I do so not only to receive praise, but also to hear criticism to know where I need to improve. And I still consider myself to be a novice when it comes to photography, I don't give up and say "this is all that I can do". One of my rules in life, my work, whether as a photographer, web blacklisted_site, software developer, etc. each day must always surpass the previous day.

[Troy]

To be honest ALwin, it isn't anything to do with political correctness. Using a little thought and treating some people with respect would be a better way of doing things, thus encouraging more active members in both the competitions and the rest of the forum.

Who are you to say that these photos are not the best some people can do? Maybe they are putting in 100% effort. I'm always happy to see this many participants, as it pushes the more active members to go that one step further in their photos.


Oh and this 'criticism' should be constructive at the least. That way maybe these people can one day meet your expectations.

[Rosie]

I'm not sure there was anything constructive about your criticsim there ALwin. I totally agree that people should be open to reading critiques about their images, but you have provided no helpful comments to anyone specifically in this post, simply a blanket insult to many.
This forum is about helping and encouraging fellow photographers of all abilities - lets keep it that way.

[ALwin]

Rosie, criticism doesn't have to be constructive. It can be simple laconic phrases that directly points out what is wrong. Also they can sometimes seem like insults (when they're not) if you let emotions and ego get in the way.

Honestly tell me, when you or anyone else were looking at the entries that no one thought in their mind like "oh this looks nice but has bad composition" or "this photo has bad exposure" or "the colors are nice on this one" or "this looks boring/interesting" etc. People may not have voiced those thoughts but they certainly thought them in their heads.

And I am trying to be helpful in my own way. I am not discouraging them, just seeing if they can rise back up after being pushed down. Like the old saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

[Troy]

Rosie, criticism doesn't have to be constructive. It can be simple laconic phrases that directly points out what is wrong.

Criticism doesn't have to be constructive, but what good is it like that?

Honestly tell me, when you or anyone else were looking at the entries that no one thought in their mind like "oh this looks nice but has bad composition" or "this photo has bad exposure" or "the colors are nice on this one" or "this looks boring/interesting" etc. People may not have voiced those thoughts but they certainly thought them in their heads.

I did think that there were some improvements to be made on some of the shots this weekend (like with most photos i see), and i'd encourage anyone who would like some help to post in the readers gallery section, where i'd be happy to give my opinion.

The thing is Aung, your reply wasn't helpful anyway, and you certainly did not voice any of these thoughts either. You simply put out an insulting reply in a condescending tone, which I'm sure many would take offence to.

Also they can sometimes seem like insults (when they're not) if you let emotions and ego get in the way.

They seem like insults when they are. Maybe you should try keeping your ego out of the way and treat everyone and their photos with a little tact.

[ALwin]

Criticism doesn't have to be constructive, but what good is it like that?

Just by pointing out what's wrong is enough to get people on the right track to improve, hence it is already constructive. Should I instead be babying them and pointing out every tiny detail?

The thing is Aung, your reply wasn't helpful anyway, and you certainly did not voice any of these thoughts either. You simply put out an insulting reply in a condescending tone, which I'm sure many would take offence to.

I did voice my opinion of what I felt about the photos: I said bad exposure and looks more like tourist shots.

Who are you to say that these photos are not the best some people can do? Maybe they are putting in 100% effort. I'm always happy to see this many participants, as it pushes the more active members to go that one step further in their photos.

I really don't think that people have already reached the limits of their photography nor have they put in 100% of the effort. As we all know, many people just enter photos from their archives which can be years old. So while it may be true that their skills might have been lacking back then but it certainly should not be if they have improved. So why do some people enter old photos during their beginner days and not better photos with their current experience which would provide a better chance of winning.

If you really think that they have already entered photos which are 'the best some people can do' or with '100% effort', then I am not the one underestimating their abilities. I am only disappointed in not seeing their best work. If they had entered their best work, it would make it harder for me or anyone else to predict who will win, making the competition more interesting as the outcome cannot be easily calculated.

Maybe you should try keeping your ego out of the way and treat everyone and their photos with a little tact.

As for 'tact', I'm sorry to say but sometimes I feel the need to act like an elitist and say it is reserved only for those I consider my equal, not for those beneath me. Only now I am showing my ego and dark humor. Before, I had been analyzing and posting like an automaton without any feelings.

Anyway, I'm going to just end this discussion now before things get ugly.

[Troy]

Should I instead be babying them and pointing out every tiny detail?

Yes.

I really don't think that people have already reached the limits of their photography nor have they put in 100% of the effort.

If you really think that they have already entered photos which are 'the best some people can do' or with '100% effort', then I am not the one underestimating their abilities. I am only disappointed in not seeing their best work.

It sounds for a minute there that you think i am underestimating these people. I am merely saying that these photos could be their best, at this point in their photographic life. I know when i first picked up a camera i could barely focus on what i wanted. I'm not much better a few years down the line.

As for 'tact', I'm sorry to say but sometimes I feel the need to act like an elitist and say it is reserved only for those I consider my equal, not for those beneath me.

So by definition you are stating that some of these people are beneath you, not your equal, and therefore not worth your 'tact'. Maybe try rethinking that and get back to us.

[peterlyall]

What about providing some reasons why a particular entry won, as an aid to those who either aren't sure or need some more guidance on some aspects, whether it is composition or their interpretation of the competition?
Aung has made some valuable points and diplomacy is always a difficult call when judging images. How many camer club competitions have the standard descriptions of ......a pleasing image or composition...........which may just be judge speak for its OK but nothing to write home about. It always better for those judging to explain some of their thoughts and decision on the winner. Competitions are important and should be maintained but likewise entrants should seek to do thier best or make the call not to just enter for the sake of it.

Hope this is received in the spirit it has been composed.

[4colourprogress]

I know when i first picked up a camera i could barely focus on what i wanted. I'm not much better a few years down the line.

You're not the only one!